Kevin Schaefer and Evan Garcia dive deep into the mind-bending finale of "Star Wars Rebels", specifically the enigmatic World Between Worlds and its impact on beloved characters like Ezra and Ahsoka. They explore the emotional weight of Ezra's sacrifice and the apparent demise of Ahsoka, discussing how these pivotal moments shape the narrative of the series and set the stage for future adventures. With a relaxed banter, the duo reflects on their personal experiences watching the series, sharing insights about the intricate storytelling that intertwines time travel and fate. As they wrap up the Spring bonus series, "On Loop," they leave listeners pondering the sacrifices made for friendship and the greater good in a galaxy far, far away. Tune in for a thoughtful discussion that blends geeky nostalgia with clever observations, perfect for fans of the Star Wars universe.

In the grand finale of their "On Loop" series, Kevin Schaefer and Evan Garcia take a leisurely stroll through the timey-wimey wonders of the World Between Worlds as explored in Star Wars Rebels. Right from the get-go, the hosts set an informal tone, inviting listeners into a discussion that feels more like a chat among friends than a structured podcast episode. Kevin's excitement is palpable as he recalls the emotional stakes surrounding Ezra's sacrifice and Ahsoka's journey, drawing listeners into the rich tapestry of the Star Wars narrative. Their witty repartee lightens the mood, making even the heaviest topics about heroism and sacrifice feel approachable.

As they dissect the finale, Kevin and Evan delve into the implications of the World Between Worlds, likening it to a cosmic game of chess where each move can alter the course of the galaxy. They provide an insightful analysis of how time travel in this context is less about changing the past and more about understanding one's choices and consequences, allowing for a fresh take on a well-trodden trope. The hosts also share their personal experiences with the series, recounting their initial reactions to pivotal moments, such as Ahsoka's dramatic encounter with Darth Vader and the lingering questions that followed.

In their closing remarks, they encapsulate the essence of Rebels as a series that not only entertains but also challenges viewers to consider the depth of its characters and the choices they make. They leave the audience buzzing with anticipation for future installments in the Star Wars universe, particularly the forthcoming Ahsoka series, while reminding everyone that, in the realm of science fiction, time loops and alternate realities are just part of the cosmic fun. With a perfect blend of humor, insight, and nostalgia, Kevin and Evan wrap up the series with an invitation to all fans to keep exploring the ever-expanding universe of Star Wars.

Takeaways:

1. The finale of Star Wars Rebels introduces the World Between Worlds, a mystical realm that allows characters to navigate through different timelines and events, adding depth to the series' lore.
2. Ezra's ultimate sacrifice to save his friends and the galaxy showcases a profound character evolution, emphasizing themes of bravery and selflessness in the face of overwhelming odds.
3. The dynamic between Ahsoka and Ezra throughout Rebels highlights the importance of mentorship and the struggle of growing up without the traditional Jedi structure or guidance.
4. The introduction of iconic characters like Thrawn and the return of Ahsoka serves to bridge the animated series with the larger Star Wars universe, creating intricate connections for fans to explore.
5. The series finale leaves many questions unanswered about the fate of its characters, particularly Ezra, setting the stage for future storytelling and character development in upcoming series.
6. Evan and Kevin's discussion underscores how Rebels blends humor, action, and emotional stakes, making it a beloved entry in the Star Wars canon that resonates with both new and longtime fans.

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Be sure to check out our merch, find extra content, and become an official member of Systematic Geekology on our website:

https://systematic-geekology-shop.fourthwall.com/

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Check out all of our 'On Loop' series to date:

https://player.captivate.fm/collection/9e240d3d-6e05-46bc-870b-400afea1cb11

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Check out other episodes with Kevin:

https://player.captivate.fm/collection/84fd7d06-cf1f-48e5-b358-09a01c5a6bc9

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Don't miss any of Evan's episodes:

https://player.captivate.fm/collection/db75189a-04f3-4129-9a5d-ade41cf863b5

Mentioned in this episode:

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To save your friends and family and also the entire galaxy. We are going to explore this question and more in this episode of Systematic Ecology.

We are the priest of the Geeks and we have a special episode for you as part of our On Loop series. This has been a bonus series we've been doing exclusively on on our main feed where we look at different examples of time travel.

And in this one, this is a fun one because it's a sort of time travel sort of not. But we're gonna get into that. But we are looking at the finale of Star Wars Rebels and we're specifically talking about Ezra and Ahsoka.

So I'm really excited to get into this, but I am one of your hosts, Kevin Schaefer. I am here with fellow geekologist, fellow Star wars buff, Evan Garcia. Evan, how are you tonight?

It's a good day.

It's a good day. And hey, we get to talk about Star wars, you know.

Yes. And not watching Star Wars.

Right, Right. Oh, my gosh.

Like, yeah, as we're recording, Evan and I were just talking about the new Darth Maul series, which we'll be talking about more in depth in another episode. But the first two episodes just dropped and oh, this is peak Star wars right here.

I mean, like, we, we've been spoiled with back to, with and, or season two and now this. And then we got the Mandalorian movie coming up. But so much Star Wars. But, but this one is really exciting.

I, I mean, this is a fun one to talk about tonight because with Star Wars Rebels, like my avatar for the show is Kanan Jarrus from Rebel. So, you know, we'll get into how my, you know, what this show is and, and you know, like what it, how it relates to this series.

And if you want to find out more about the On Loop series, just check out the show notes. You can find the whole playlist there.

We got some really good episodes about interstellar cable from X Men, Back to the Future, some really good stuff there. So. Yeah, so, but, but this one again will be the Star Wars Rebels finale. So very, very excited to talk about this. And so let's get into it.

So, Evan, I know, you know, we've talked, you know, Star wars many, many times, but looking specifically at Rebels and thinking about the series finale, if we had just finished this show, we're sitting on the couch. Evan, what is your reaction to this finale into the series as a whole.

When it first aired or now?

Let's pretend just now like you just gotta, like, I got done with it.

Okay.

And like. But you get it. But I. But comment. But I would love to God, like, when it first aired bring to like, aspect of those feelings as well.

If it came out now or, or probably if I saw it now and I'll be like, dang, I finally saw it. And, and, and it's.

And it's a totally worth seeing, you know, so I would have been proud and like to add to check off a part of the Star wars bucket list. But. But when, but when. But when that first came out, I am not going to lie, I was still bitter that they canceled the Clone wars.

So, so, so I would have been like, okay, cool, but give me Clone Wars.

100% And see, that's the thing about. It's an important context for this series because I think for a lot of fans of the animated shows, they like.

I mean, one of my best friends who watch every episode of Clone wars and Rebels, but he watched them after it was all done on Disney plus like in the last few years. And so, like, I think there's a lot of fans in that boat. But people don't realize, you know, the, the history here with the Clone.

The actual final season that they made on Disney plus years later. That was after Rebels have concluded as well.

So Rebels came after the initial run of Clone wars and this is before that, you know, final season we got with, you know, Ahsoka inviting Maul and the connections to order 66, all of that. That was years later. So, so it's a really good point. Rebels came along and it's like, you know. Yeah. Yes, yes. So I mean, great show.

But it's like, but there was those lingering of like, oh, I really want them to finish out this story, you know, and thankfully we would get that conclusion, but we had to wait a while. So. So that Evan, like, I mean, yeah, you meant you were a devoted fan watching it as it aired. For, for me, I actually, I did watch it later.

I remember I think I saw like an episode or here and there, maybe in College of Rebels, like on Disney xd. But then at certain point, I don't know if we didn't have it or what, but. But I, you know, I lost track. I'm able to follow the show there.

So then I watched it on Disney plus years later. But, but, you know, it's. It's one of my favorites.

And if you had to kind of summarize the series and we'll get into the finale specifically, but if you, if you had to give kind of an overview of what Star Wars Rebels is for people who haven't watched it, how would you describe it?

I would say that Star Wars Rebels, it shows the formation of the Rebel alliance and how they got organized, but they focus on a small crew kind of equivalent to Firefly or something like that. And we basically, we, we. It's a hodgepodge crew that comes together to, to learn from each other and they grow and, and they just so happen.

Start the Rebellion.

No, absolutely. The, the. The lovable Ghost crew.

Very Firefly esque, very ragtag group that, you know, for the most part, they're not in it to, especially at the beginning. They're not all idealistic heroes wanting to liberate the galaxy.

A lot of them are very thrust into this world and, you know, they're doing missions here and there, but they're not. They don't really know that they're going to be this foundation for the rebellion.

And that's what I really love about this series, and especially when I'm describing Clone wars and Rebels to people is like Clone wars adheres to. I mean, obviously it's set during era of the prequels and it had.

Here's more to that aesthetic and more to that sense of storytelling because you have, you might have an episode that focuses on Ahsoka, then you do another one with Anakin, then you do another with Obi Wan, then, then you might meet some like, you know, wild supporting character that you've never heard of. And, and it kind of jumps around with Rebels.

It follows more of a core group of characters and, and, you know, lays the foundation for exactly what would become the Rebellion. And so, yeah, we have. You have Kanan Jarrus, you have Hera, you have Ezra Bridger, who we're going to talk about a lot tonight.

And then Zeb and Sabine, you know, everyone's favorite droid. And then Sabine Chopper. But yeah, yeah, favorite war criminal, Chopper. I mean, like, I mean, right. Favorite war criminal droid.

You know, no disc to R2 and C3PO, but, but chopper, that first episode,.

When he, when he kicks that dro. Like, geez, okay.

Yes.

Oh, my gosh, it's just like, you know, and, and, and that was, I mean, one of the biggest, you know, thrills of the Ahsoka live action series was getting to see Chopper in live action. Yeah, it was an absolute delight there. But yeah, so a lot happened. Oh, yeah, absolutely.

And like, a lot happens in Rebels and, you know, we're not gonna be able to get all to all of it in a 30 minute episode here. But. But looking at the finale specifically. So. Okay, so over the course of four seasons, we follow the Ghost crew.

We, you know, I mean, Ezra and Kanan are very much the Luke and Obi Wan of this series. You know, we see them grow. We see, you know, big legacy characters come into play. There's a season where Vader is primary antagonist.

They bring Darth Maul back, they bring in Thrawn, which is a big deal because up until this point. Oh, like. Well, because Evan, had you read the the Heir to the Empire novel?

I read the first one. I never. The. I never finished the trilogy.

But yeah, sure, sure.

So, yeah, I like, it was a big deal to bring a character that iconic that was, you know, very essential to the old legacy novels, but hadn't really been introduced in live action or animation up until this point. And so then he became the Big Bad. And then. And then, you know, they brought back Ahsoka because they had kind of teased her as.

That was a big one.

And then got her back in season one. Yeah. And did. Oh, well, did you see that coming as far? Because, like, what. What was the code name Folk that they had given her? Fulcrum.

Fulcrum, that's correct. That's right.

So, yeah, they tease that they're as this, like, rebel ally kind of Fulcrum is teased throughout, and then they finally reveal at the end of season one that it's Ahsoka. Like, did Evan, when you were watching it, did you have any inclination that Fulker might be Ahsoka or was that.

Yeah.

A big surprise?

Yes, I was like, that's. That's probably Ahsoka. But then back then, they podcast Rebel Force Radio. They took it into their quote unquote sound lab, and they.

And they adjusted that.

That voice transmission and they slowed it down and then they kind of tweaked it, and then you can clearly hear Ashley Eckstein's voice that plays as Ahsoka. So. So they were the ones that got.

That's pretty impressive. Okay, now, granted, I do not have that much time on my hands, but I admire the.

The intense effort there of a podcaster to do that so that, you know, that is cool. But. But Noka is really important to talk about in leading up to the finale because. So she's in primarily season two.

They go on many adventures together. The, you know, the seeds of the rebellion are being planted.

And then at the end of season two, she finally confronts Darth Vader after years and years of not doing it. And, like, once she learns that Anakin has become Vader, and they face off in this epic duel. And this was the big twist for.

Especially when we were watching this live, when we're like, whoa, did that just happen? And like, you. If they make it look like Ahsoka dies in this, I had to go,.

Yeah, halfway through watching this episode, I was like, wait a minute. What's the whole context for this? Because I.

For.

Because I felt that I was missing something. So I went back and I watched that episode, and yes, it was. The temple started falling apart. And then we kind of didn't know who that was.

Kind of walking away was like, was that Ahsoka or.

We.

We really didn't know what happened. So that was a pretty clever storytelling where they went back to it in the final season like that.

That one's pretty wild because it's like the end of season one, you know, they fight in inquisitors, big up the battle. But it's still. It's not like, you know, they may just say, and then Vader. Vader is teased at the end of the season, but.

But the season two finale, Maul comes back, he blinds Canaan. We, you know, we witness what appears to be the death of Ahsoka, but this is what. Where it sets it up is Ahsoka does not die.

But in fact, this leads to a later storyline in the final season where the concept of the world between worlds is introduced. So, like.

And this is basically a mystical realm where people can use the Force and see different their lives from different viewpoints and see all these current different events sort of streamlined together. So this is why we are including this in this series with the on loop. Because it's. I, like, I mean, I don't know. Like, I don't. I don't know how.

Well, I'm explaining this because, like, I. I love the show, but, like, it's a. It's a different kind of time travel, and it's a different kind of mysticism here. I don't know. Would you say. What would you say to that?

Because this leads to.

When Ezra discovers it, and he eventually finds the point where Ahsoka is about to be stabbed by Vader, and he pulls her out of it, and that's how they reunite toward. Toward the end of the series.

Right. Yeah. No, it. Like, it's definitely one of those things where it's like. You don't know if it's.

It's one of those things where you're like, is it a dream or something? Because around. Because around this episode, they were teasing.

And the part of the way that they got into this Jedi Temple to get into the world between worlds is they had the family from the Mortis arc and it. And that's a very weird and trippy episode from the Clone Wars.

So they kind of went ahead and they use that aesthetic of we don't know if it's real or not to. To. To. To give us a Star wars version of time travel. To where, like you said. Yeah.

Where you go to this place and there's these different portals that show you different parts of the Star wars timeline. I guess it's a different shatter point, if you will.

Yeah.

From.

From something also. Yes, yes, yes. And it was something, too, that Palpatine was trying to access, and he had failed. He was trying to use Ezra to do that too.

That was another big thing that. And, you know, eventually Ezra outsmarts and. And then it all leads to. With the finale.

You know, that's why I teased in the intro saying, like, oh, would you hurl yourself into oblivion to save your friends and family in the galaxy? Because this. In the finale, Ezra does make the ultimate sacrifice where Thrawn's army is coming to invade Lothal. Everything is a risk. And especially.

And. And Ezra knows if the Empire and Palpatine never gets hold of the war between the world between worlds and.

And crushes the rebellion here, then they're all doomed. And so he takes away the. The Purg. It's Pergil or Purgel. Yeah, the. The. The Perel. Yeah, yeah. The basically giant space whales. He.

Yeah, yeah, it's easier to just say that. So takes the space whales and goes with them to take over Thrawn's ship. But he knows that it's not. He's not just sending Thrawn away.

He has to sacrifice himself and. And be. We. We don't know at the end of Rebels, like, is he dead? Is he still out there? But.

But he essentially disappears from this galaxy and is taken far away so that Thrawn can be imprisoned elsewhere.

And that sets up the Ahsoka series because at the end of Rebels, it's set up as Ahsoka and Sabine will lead the search for Ezra and eventually fight him. And that, you know, sets up that series. And so, yeah, I Mean, I know I'm kind of. Kind of going all over the place. Like I said, it's a.

Rebels is kind of a.

Other than the premise of it being a Firefly, Guardians of the Galaxy type ragtag crew in space there, especially in the later seasons, there is a lot of mythology there that was previously unexplored and lore that was unexplored in the Star wars universe. That is kind of hard to explain if you haven't seen it, really. So I know I'm kind of jumping all over the place here, but.

But it is fascinating, you know, but, Evan, looking at that finale, you know, and all the things that are happening and that big, you know, conclusion of, like, Ezra's disappearance and then setting up, you know, his eventual search, what were your thoughts on that, you know, when you first watched it and what do you think about it now?

When I first watched it, I was just like, okay, I can see this. And then when I was first. When I.

When I was noticing the set, they were doing the weird time travel version, a Star wars version of time travel, I was kind of hesitant. But then when they used it to teach Ezra the lesson that. That Anakin couldn't learn, I was like, ah, okay, that. That.

That's pretty smart to teach a main character what's the heart of the series. I think. I think it's worth the mechanism that they used, even though it's kind of clunky and it's kind of cheating somewhat.

But I liked it in the sense that it gave him the confidence to. To take on Thrawn in that way that he did and he did it and in the way that he. I did. It was such.

He.

He learned from that moment and from Kanan to. To let go and to do the right thing, usually. So, yeah. Because baseballs are fun, though.

I like. I like that. I like that. Yeah. Yeah. And, yeah, I mean, for me, I think, because. So just in time travel in general, I'm not all I like.

I mean, I was on the back. The Future episode. I love Back to the Future, of course. But, like, I'm all.

I'm not a big time travel fan because ultimately, I mean, it can be very like, you know, a cheat sheet, you know, for storytelling. And it's also can be lead to things that are very convoluted. You know, I kind of like more simple storytelling, and I like there to be stakes.

I like there to be, you know, you know, legit rules and, you know, a clear logic for how things unfold. So I'm not as big. And you know, when they first introduced this concept, I was like, okay, that's a lot to take in.

And we're not even talking about like the Mortise saga and how that ties in.

Right.

That's a whole nother thing. But, but yeah, right, right.

And I mean, yeah, there Star wars theory and a bunch of other podcasts and stuff, you know, can go much deeper into this stuff. But, but yeah, I mean I, I always love Rebels though. I mean I like, I, I, I just like the core group of characters so much.

But I think if anything the, the finale there is a lot to be left desired and you know, it, some of it I think plays out well in Ahsoka, some of it doesn't. You know, I, I guess one of the, you know, we're talking about Ezra and Ahsoka here.

I really like Ezra's journey and you know, and Ahsoka is one of my all time favorite.

But I think the one thing that they kind of introduced in the Tease here, but then they didn't really follow up is like they have Ahsoka be like Ahsoka the white. She comes back after all the this time gone and I can resume and they didn't really build on that.

They went back to her kind of gray aesthetic in the Ahsoka series, Mandalorian and all that. I kind of wish they had stuck to that because it was very much a Gandalf mirror there and I think that would have been cool to follow up on.

But yeah, so there's, there's a lot of interesting concepts for a series finale and you know, it's both a conclusion, but it's also leaves a lot lingering.

But yeah, so it's, I mean, you know, I, I think I would say I enjoy the earlier seasons a little more, but I still really like the finale and you know, I mean I just hope now that because Ahsoka then like season one was a lot of setup for things to come because the spoiler alert. But like, you know, Ahsoka and Ezra, Ezra does get freed, but also thaw get freed.

They set up the big, you know, Return of Thrawn and big battle there and I think they're still building toward that, but we don't know and we haven't got as many updates there. So I just hope that they are able to tell that story and tell it effectively. So we'll see how that goes. But. Awesome.

Well, I know these are shorter episodes, but is there anything else you want to say? Just about. I guess the only Other thing I want to say, too, about, like, Ezra is. Yeah.

I mean, he said he's very much like the Luke parallel in this series, but it's funny because I, I watch Screen Crash all the time. And Ryan, the main host on there, like, he likes, he loves Clone wars, he likes Rebels overall.

But he kind of, like, always hated Ezra as a character, saying, like, it was just a Luke ripoff. It was kind of hard.

But what I find most compelling about Ezra and about Kanan in particular, and this is why, like, he's my Avatar, is, like, you have these Jedi and what it's like for them to be completely devoid from the Jedi Order. Because even Kanan, yes, he was a Padawan raised in that, but he was not there for long.

What I really like about their relationship is, you know, Kanan is having to train a Jedi reluctantly a lot at first, but.

But, you know, you get to see what it's like for someone who was never part really of the Jedi Order, who was a kid when order 66 happened, and now he's trying to figure that out. And when they're detached from the more dogmatic ways of the Jedi, I like seeing that relationship evolve.

And I think each of them really, I don't think they're Justin or Obi Wan and Luke parallel. Like, they, they really have their distinct personalities.

And I, you know, I like how their relationship evolves and, and, and I like the actor who plays him in the. Both in Rebels, but also in the, in the Ahsoka series. And I'm really interested in what they'll do with them there.

Yeah, they did a, they did almost a, A continuation of what, what Luke and Yoda taught, you know, or what Ayoda taught Luke, and they get kind of blunt with it, like, when they bring up the fact that, like, they don't know what do or do not means, it's like, yeah, Yoda used to say that all the time, but I have no idea what that means, you know, so, so it was a cool.

Right? Right.

Real world example of how the in universe characters can grow and still learn these same lessons, but in a different way that makes them unique.

No, absolutely. I think Rebels can really be viewed from a different lens.

And, you know, I, I, you know, if you're a big fan of the original trilogy and you haven't checked this out and you definitely check out Clone wars, check out this, and now check out the new mall series, because, oh, my gosh, it's so good. Only two episodes in, but, you know, a lot of Great Star wars out there. But. But yeah, so that's, you know, a little bit on Star Wars Rebels.

I know we could go even much more in depth, but. But this is, you know, always fun to talk about. And once Ahsoka the series comes back, we'll have more to say about that.

And yeah, I hope that gets going pretty soon because I am really looking forward to seeing how this story continues to play out.

And a balance goal, man. He's one of my favorite characters.

Yes, yes, absolutely. A lot of good characters in this show. And, you know, I mean, I love Zeb, I love Sabine, you know, some of my. But yeah, yeah, good stuff. So. Awesome.

Well, Evan, before we close out, so if you were stuck in a time loop with any of your friends or family members, I would want to ask, like, who would you want it to be? And what movie or show would you all be watching on repeat in this scenario?

And, like, I had to think about this one, too, because, like, I think when we were doing Back to Future one, I was trying to think of a movie and, like, even some of my favorite movies, I'm like, if I. Even the best ones, like, I don't know if I could watch on repeat all the time. So I'm gonna go with the show for mine, but I think I.

So my sister is a big friends fan, and I mean, I like friends, but, like, I was always more how I met your mother, and I don't think she's ever watched it. So I think I would have my sister in a time loop and show her how I met your mother, and I think. I think she would love it because, like.

Yeah, so that's my. Because, I mean, they like. I like friends, but I think how I met your mother is like the next level of that. And it just like.

And that's one of my main comfort shows. I love it. But. But, Evan, what about you? Who are you going to take and what are you going to be watching?

I'll probably take my dad so we can. So I could learn stuff from him.

But what I would watch is probably the Star Wars Episode 1 documentary called the Beginning that holds just a special place in my heart. That's like my comfort food for movies and stuff. So I will watch that for sure.

Oh, I like it. That's original. I love it. Yeah. I wasn't sure if you were going to say with your dad, Thor, because we were talking about this on the.

The MCU episode that, like. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. There you go. Awesome. Sweet. Well, Evan, thanks so much. This was a blast. And yeah, for our oh, always a pleasure.

And yeah, for our listeners out there. Hey, you know, rate, review the show. You know, check us out. And I know this one just on our main feed, but check out our YouTube channel, too.

And check out the show notes for a whole playlist of this series. And oh, oh, that's a good sign to but, you know, just enjoy the series and remember, we are all a chosen people. A geekdom of priests. Sam.